LLVM+GCC collaboration BoF

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LLVM+GCC collaboration BoF

Renato Golin Linaro
Folks,

Is there any interest in having a BoF session on the GCC+LLVM collaboration?

I'd like to discuss some of the outcomes from the GNU Cauldron session
and see what we could do to make that relationship healthier.

So far, all the cross discussions I've seen on the GNU list (about
LLVM) have been very healthy and the GNU folks seem very receptive to
discussion (not so much for changing the rules, but that takes time).

However, there are some steps we can do to speed up the cross-talk,
including maybe participating on their community a bit more (regarding
extensions committee, outlining features behaviour, etc). I'm already
doing some of this on binutils and, even though we don't fully agree,
at least there is a common ground that we do.

I've already proposed on the devconf email, just let me know if there
is any interest, so we can keep it as a proposal, otherwise I'll drop
it later on.

thanks,
--renato
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Re: LLVM+GCC collaboration BoF

Chris Lattner

> On Aug 30, 2014, at 9:31 AM, Renato Golin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there any interest in having a BoF session on the GCC+LLVM collaboration?
>
> I'd like to discuss some of the outcomes from the GNU Cauldron session
> and see what we could do to make that relationship healthier.

I'm a fan of the effort, but are any primary GCC contributors planning to attend the LLVM dev mtg?

-Chris
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Re: [LLVMdev] LLVM+GCC collaboration BoF

David Chisnall-4
On 30 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Chris Lattner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm a fan of the effort, but are any primary GCC contributors planning to attend the LLVM dev mtg?

Is it widely advertised within the GCC community?  I presume that there are some GCC developers in the bay area who would be able to make it, if there's space for them at such a session and interest in having them attend.

I hosted the GNU Tools Cauldron this year and there were a few LLVM developers other than Renato any myself there for the LLVM/GCC cooperation session.

David


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Re: [LLVMdev] LLVM+GCC collaboration BoF

Renato Golin Linaro
On 30 August 2014 18:11, David Chisnall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is it widely advertised within the GCC community?

I haven't seen any announcement on the GNU lists (gcc, buinutils).


> I presume that there are some GCC developers in the bay area who would be able to make it, if there's space for them at such a session and interest in having them attend.

We could send an email to those lists, though most of them have
already attended at the cauldron, and they may find it a bit
redundant. Don't we have a few GCC folks in our midst, already?

I think, in the long term, it'd be good if more LLVM developers went
to the cauldron and more GNU developers to the LLVM meetings, but I'm
happy to be the bridge for now. At least to lay the ground work and
help ease the expectations. We have strong opinions on both sides and
we don't always agree, so without the proper expectations, there could
be some serious misunderstandings, damaging the collaboration.

Having said that, I'd be happy to have GNU folks on that BoF, just
like we had LLVM folks at the cauldron. I think it was a positive
experience!

cheers,
--renato
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Re: [LLVMdev] LLVM+GCC collaboration BoF

Tim Northover-2
In reply to this post by Renato Golin Linaro
> Is there any interest in having a BoF session on the GCC+LLVM collaboration?

Collaboration is certainly a good idea, but I'm not convinced the best
way to make it happen is by hosting siloed meetings about it within
each community's gathering. It almost seems the canonical example of
how not to increase cross-talk.

The outcome of the cauldron one seems to have been (quite justifiably)
"sure, we'll talk if needed, but won't be dictated to". I expect LLVM
developers would say exactly the same thing.

I'll make sure I'm there either way, of course.

Cheers.

Tim.
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Re: [LLVMdev] LLVM+GCC collaboration BoF

Renato Golin Linaro
On 30 August 2014 19:50, Tim Northover <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Collaboration is certainly a good idea, but I'm not convinced the best
> way to make it happen is by hosting siloed meetings about it within
> each community's gathering. It almost seems the canonical example of
> how not to increase cross-talk.

I agree with you, but these things take time. You don't start a poker
game "all in".


> The outcome of the cauldron one seems to have been (quite justifiably)
> "sure, we'll talk if needed, but won't be dictated to". I expect LLVM
> developers would say exactly the same thing.

I'm expecting *exactly* that. This is all part of "the plan". :)


> I'll make sure I'm there either way, of course.

Ok, I think we have enough +1s for this one, I'll keep the proposal.

Thanks everyone, and see you there!

--renato
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